Curse

Lishy · Nov 12, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

The amount of stupid posts by people who think they know what they're talking about is absurd.
But then again, if you insult a stubborn person's ideas, they only act more stubborn. So I guess there's no point to joining in the sf argument.

My thoughts on the general matter though? Don't reinforce Izzy's job.
I would say to just leave it for the test krewe and arenanet to handle. SF was promised to be nerfed by the end of the year anyways.

own age myname · Nov 12, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tastyy

I wish I could cuss, because that way I'd REALLY express myself.

NOT.EVERYONE.HAS.A.GUILD.THAT.DOES.UW

Organizing is hard as it is. Making guild members sign up to forums, post, be active, etc, is even harder.

Take a look at the GWO forums. They're huge guilds, but the UW/FOW-run threads are not popular. People always want to do UW, but organizing it is a hassle.

Elitist.

Ok, I'm an elitist? The only UWSC I've done is Chamber, and I've done that a few time, but it is extremely boring. I only do FoWSC, which isn't really a complete speed clear, as it uses a main balanced group.

There is no incentive to UW, because the rewards are shitty for the time it takes to do a balanced clear.

I'm probably (I am) going to get flamed for this. Join a huge guild that actually does activities. KISS and NiTe are 2 examples. I'm sure you can find a group of willing people in the huge ass alliance.

Sorry to say this, but the days of PUGing the UW are long gone.

upier · Nov 12, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

No, it doesn't. Blow up SF and people have to find a new way to quickly beat content. That development process isn't grind. It's challenging and stimulating.

Skill balances are effectively dirt cheap content. That's why game companies love them. It's a lot cheaper to nerf skills than create new monsters, much less make a new area from scratch.

Unless the new method is as effective as SF (which is being asked to be nerfed because it is TOO effective) - the amount of grind increases.
Also keep in mind that outside of a few players, the majority of players will wait for the build to show up on wiki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

70 and over 900, respectively. Add up all the really rare minis and you've got about four thousand items. That assumes that Ghostly and Polar Bear are both in the low hundreds, which I believe is a safe bet.

That means that at any given time - up to 4k people can have the reward.
Which means that every player can take a look at how much gold they have and earn and decide pretty much instantly if there is a point to them playing.
If you can not compete for these 4k items, there is no point to continue playing.
If on the other hand we are dealing with something that has no limited supply, meaning a person obtaining it does not prevent me from obtaining it, that means that there is always a point to continue playing.
Something with a limited supply in no way caters to the masses. It actually excludes these masses.
Because that is it's point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Does Average Joe have hundreds of hours to invest grinding GWAMM? Average Joe could have grinded up a whole lot of in-game cash in that time a couple of years ago. But Average Joe doesn't play in the High End markets. He doesn't get GWAMM either.

That's the problem.
Had GWAMM been rebalanced, Average Joe could have obtained the title by playing the game. Average Joe can not participate in high end market by simply playing the game. Grind is required. Had namely playing the game provided you with enough funds to participate in the high-end market, the excluding function of said market would have been lost. That would mean anyone would be able to obtain said items, making them lose their point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

No, it isn't. People get GWAMM and quit. I've seen that pattern too many times. The limited supply of the miniatures and multiple end goals is what makes the system work. The supply keeps renewing itself because eventually someone gets more goodies than an owner has sense and the owner sells the pet. The supply may be fixed, but the items move around quite a bit. Those thousands of items have been owned by many more thousands of players that don't own them now.

GWAMM would keep people interested and occupied and not prevent them from quitting. If the GWAMM goals were attainable, players would have something to do for the next two years.
It would allow playing the game to be sufficient in obtaining goals.
Playing the game is currently not sufficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The only reason that the entrance grind is so prohibitive now is SF. You're looking at hundreds of hours of gameplay just to have the capital to move Onis around. It wasn't that way until people started farming UW into the ground. I could grind the stack of ecto needed to purchase an undedicated Oni in twelve hours, back when people still paid decent prices for dungeon runs.

Now that same method would take a couple hundred. Some of that is the decreased value of runs due to competition, but most of it is the increase in item prices that SF has caused.

The reason why the entry is limited is because that's the nature of the beast. It always was and it always will be.
As I have said, the point of the high-end market is excluding players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Again, the reason for that is that playing the game no longer pays well enough. The persistence of SF and the UWSC is directly to blame.

As I have said before, playing the game never paid well enough.

Zeff Nut · Nov 12, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The reason why the entry is limited is because that's the nature of the beast. It always was and it always will be.
As I have said, the point of the high-end market is excluding players.

I agree with this 100%. I don't understand why people keep moaning and whining about this though. Just like in real life there is a high end market for things and it excludes probably 99.4% of the world's population. Seriously, how many of you have an Aston Martin in the garage, a Rembrandt on the wall over the fireplace and a rolex on your wrist? Most of us don't and most of us probably never will. That is why they are called high end items.... Then again, the people that whine because they can't have the flashiest pixels are probably the same ones who want everything handed to them in life also.

Martin Alvito · Nov 12, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Which means that every player can take a look at how much gold they have and earn and decide pretty much instantly if there is a point to them playing.

If you're willing to make some assumptions about your future cashflow and that of others that may or may not be accurate, AND if you're too incompetent to rigorously question whether there may be ways to improve your own cashflow that you haven't discovered yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Something with a limited supply in no way caters to the masses. It actually excludes these masses.
Because that is it's point.

This is also the point of a title like GWAMM. The time requirements are sufficiently high that it is inaccessible to everyone but the seriously hardcore. As it should be. You are not entitled to fill up your achievement meter because you bought the game and installed it to your hard drive.

If you don't want to do the work, quit worrying about whether or not you get the title. I don't have GWAMM. I won't be getting GWAMM. I detest Hard Mode (other than farming), and I am not about to go invest hundreds of boring hours vanquishing zones. That's a choice. It's fine not to do everything there is in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

GWAMM would keep people interested and occupied and not prevent them from quitting. If the GWAMM goals were attainable, players would have something to do for the next two years.

The goals are certainly attainable over the course of several years for a casual player. But acquiring that title isn't going to attract the casual player's interest. Average Joe plays through the game a couple of times over a long period of time and wanders off to go play something else. The hardcore player that gets GWAMM might be better off if the grind involved in the title were reduced. But making you better off makes a lot of other people worse off. Every time you dumb down an achievement you're negatively affecting everyone that already climbed that mountain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeff Nut

Then again, the people that whine because they can't have the flashiest pixels are probably the same ones who want everything handed to them in life also.

You're not understanding the argument.

Upier is the one who wants everything handed to him. I'm arguing that the inflation SF and UWSC have caused make it pointless to work and innovate to find new, efficient ways to play the game. The only way you can make decent money in this game today is to power trade. Even dungeon running won't provide enough to enable you to purchase the least of the high end minis without grinding for hundreds of hours.

That leads to stagnation, a lack of innovation and a dead game.

Zeff Nut · Nov 13, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Upier is the one who wants everything handed to him. I'm arguing that the inflation SF and UWSC have caused make it pointless to work and innovate to find new, efficient ways to play the game. The only way you can make decent money in this game today is to power trade. Even dungeon running won't provide enough to enable you to purchase the least of the high end minis without grinding for hundreds of hours.

That leads to stagnation, a lack of innovation and a dead game.

I'm not saying there is or is not or will or won't be new and efficient ways to play the game, what I am saying is that I see not only in this thread but in many threads that people whine because they don't have "X" item and how it's not fair that others do and it should be accessible to all/others. If a player feels there is no way to accomplish something in the game other than 1 method they should /uninstall and the rest of us should really hope they are not being relied on to adapt to any kind of change in real life. If all people thought that way we'd still be living in caves and beating each other on the head with clubs. I am not "rich" by most standards, I have a few nice vanity items, a full HoM and a little over 1 mill in the bank..... I have never power traded anything, I am not a hardcore speed clearer, I do not have a sin character. Builds I have enjoyed have come and gone but it is completely possible to still accumulate some wealth and get some bling if only you're willing to change as the game changes. I think what would really lead to stagnation and lack of innovation is if everyone did have everything, if you think about it, people use whatever methods they use be it sc's, power trading, running whatever to accomplish something whether it's to reduce grind, build up cash reserves, get that elusive mini whatever. If we had it all there would be no reason to do anything.

UnChosen · Nov 13, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

We are getting ahead of self with all the "high end" talk....pugs have problems with Vizunah Square NORMAL MODE without a SF sin "camping" a group of monsters from one direction for them, or relying on gimmick heroway/MM. Missions like Dzagonur Bastion and Eternal Grove is also complete hell with any sort of pugs, unless there's a SF sin camping one direction so that the idiots can stick together instead of running around in circles trying to figure out that they need to split.

For high area there's even less point in trying to do it balanced with any pugs....once I take into account all the money and time I wasted with all the idiots in balanced pugs, I might as well go feather farming for more reward. Nerfing SF would do nothing except move every farm group (which IMO are FAR BETTER in terms of skill compared to balanced pugs, at least they know that aataxes hurt) to another gimmick build for another 100 threads of whining on the forum. If they somehow decide to go for the nuclear option and just nerf every team gimmick (if they could without destroying normal builds that is), then people would just go back to solo or duo farm UW. The most profitable method ALWAYS wins, and Anet will never get people to go to varied/balanced builds until there's sufficient reward in doing so.

YunSooJin · Nov 13, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

don't play harder, play smarter? laughable advice though, since a lot of people can't tell the difference from their head and their ass =P

upier · Nov 13, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The time requirements are sufficiently high that it is inaccessible to everyone but the seriously hardcore. As it should be. You are not entitled to fill up your achievement meter because you bought the game and installed it to your hard drive.

Then I don't see the problem with the high-end market.
It's excluding by default, and SF just made it a bit more excluding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

You're not understanding the argument.

Upier is the one who wants everything handed to him. I'm arguing that the inflation SF and UWSC have caused make it pointless to work and innovate to find new, efficient ways to play the game. The only way you can make decent money in this game today is to power trade. Even dungeon running won't provide enough to enable you to purchase the least of the high end minis without grinding for hundreds of hours.

That leads to stagnation, a lack of innovation and a dead game.

I do not want everything to be handed to me.
I just wish the designers looked at the game and took it's basic premise into the account when designing it's goals. The question is - how hardcore is too hardcore?
And it's the same question you are asking yourself - you obviously feel that grinding for 100s of hours is too much.

People would need to achieve some goals in a reasonable amount of time by simply playing the game. Which means there is no need for grind and that means grind can be reserved for the high-end market players.
Currently, grind is required for reaching goals that should have been obtainable by playing the game and that means that players of the high-end market need to grind even more.

qvtkc · Nov 13, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

We are getting ahead of self with all the "high end" talk....pugs have problems with Vizunah Square NORMAL MODE without a SF sin "camping" a group of monsters from one direction for them, or relying on gimmick heroway/MM. Missions like Dzagonur Bastion and Eternal Grove is also complete hell with any sort of pugs, unless there's a SF sin camping one direction so that the idiots can stick together instead of running around in circles trying to figure out that they need to split.

Ya. And if people are not forced to learn, they never will learn, and will stay crappy players forever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

So you are advertising that a game where people don't actually play it?

If you actually use grammatically valid sentences I might be able to understand what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO your moronic babblings are about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You'd rather have goals that are unattainable?

Of course. And there are plenty of those goals in GW already. I'd rather see GWAMM being near impossible to get, than some stupid minipet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Maybe you'll have people looking at GW2 and thinking that they don't want it because they didn't play GW1 which would allow them to get all the bonuses?
That's the issues with goals that are unattainable in GW1 and their potential effect on GW2.

If you think people will buy or not buy GW2 on basis of some bonus weapon skin you are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing deluded. People will buy a certain game because they want to play that game. Or they will refrain from buying it in case they do not want to play it. You have to be a god damn idiot to think anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you win - it's as good as it gets.
And you can win with an empty skillbar.
Foes do not get magically harder in PvE. So as I have said, the only way to improve in PvE is to beat them faster. And SF does not stop you in doing that. It just means that you will include SF in your team build.
The same that you would include other best options.

Since you always win in PvE (which should be fixed), it's a matter of winning quickly and easily. You can win with an empty skillbar? No, you can't, at least not if your entire team have empty skillbars.

And there are no other best options. It's SF and nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yes, some people will have to choose between boring and boring.
But some people will have to choose between fun and fun.
Just because something isn't fun to you, does not mean it not fun for everyone.

I can only speak for myself. If I spoke for others I'd be a hypocrite since I don't know what they feel.

But go ahead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Something as overpowered as SF is perfect as since it can negate some of the issues that could arise from playing with people you do not know.
If the build requires you to do it all, do you really want to pick up some random guy?

Of course. That's when it gets interesting. You have to actually try to make it work instead of stupidly spamming shit, repeating a click pattern, or simply pay someone else to do it for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

How many Oni?

Too many. The RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOers always pop up when you least expect them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Based on those numbers, your Average Joe should reasonably expect that they will never own it. And what this influx of goods causes is that the items that your Average Joe will probably never own, get more expensive.
Now this would be an issue if owning a Zhed would somehow play a role.
It does not.
What does play a role is maxing those 30 titles to get God.

Maxing those 30 titles will likely give some vanity reward in the next game. Which is exactly the same thing as owning a Zhed, only it will be more common and therefore worth less than Zhed is. If anything, owning a Zhed mini matters more than achieving GWAMM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's why I feel that a full HoM or God is something that should be available to the masses. A lot of the titles, such as VQing, doing missions, capping elites, mapping, ... promote playing the game. And this is what we want. We want people to play the game.

It's funny you say that because PEOPLE ARE NOT PLAYING THE GAME, people are getting ran to the right and left and are using shitty gimmicks to cheat their way past stuff. Merely being logged in and paying for someone else to play your game isn't playing the game.

P.S. why does this faggot board replace normal English words with some go red engine bullshit?

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 13, 2009, 09:26 AM // 09:26

This thread seems to have some tension in it. I'm getting tempted to skim through the mere 18 pages and add my 50 cents..

upier · Nov 13, 2009, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

If you actually use grammatically valid sentences I might be able to understand what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO your moronic babblings are about.

Sorry precious.
Missed that. Having looked at it again - I have no idea what words are missing because I have no idea how I wanted to word that sentence. What I do know is that the sentence was asking the same thing as the sentence below it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Of course. And there are plenty of those goals in GW already. I'd rather see GWAMM being near impossible to get, than some stupid minipet.

See precious, there is no limited supply when it comes to GWAMM.
Contrary to a rare item, where the supply is limited, you can get GWAMM if you are dedicated. You can only get a rare mini if you are dedicated AND someone is offering it.
The only way to make Zhed's attainable to more people is by increasing their numbers. Otherwise, they will ALWAYS be near impossible to get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

If you think people will buy or not buy GW2 on basis of some bonus weapon skin you are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing deluded. People will buy a certain game because they want to play that game. Or they will refrain from buying it in case they do not want to play it. You have to be a god damn idiot to think anything else.

The point is rather that it keeps players interested in a dead game. Free advertising for their next product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Since you always win in PvE (which should be fixed), it's a matter of winning quickly and easily. You can win with an empty skillbar? No, you can't, at least not if your entire team have empty skillbars.

And there are no other best options. It's SF and nothing else.

See precious, SF is best at what it does.
But it does not do everything.
Wouldn't you rather clear an area with 8 SF assassins each invincible, yet dealing sub-par damage, or would you rather run guys whose damage output surpasses the SF guy but that comes at the expense of not having invincibility?
SF just means that if you are looking for a tank, you will take SF.
The same way you won't take a dervish if you will be looking for a healer.
You'll grab a monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Of course. That's when it gets interesting. You have to actually try to make it work instead of stupidly spamming shit, repeating a click pattern, or simply pay someone else to do it for you.

The chance of failure influences the efficiency of a road taken.
In farming, where SF is used, you want to minimize the risk of failure. Because bigger risk means the chance of less rewards. And that is not compatible with farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Too many. The RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOers always pop up when you least expect them.

Oh precious, you crack me up!
Acting as if you didn't know that we were talking about minis!
Classic qvtkc!
CLASSIC!

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Maxing those 30 titles will likely give some vanity reward in the next game. Which is exactly the same thing as owning a Zhed, only it will be more common and therefore worth less than Zhed is. If anything, owning a Zhed mini matters more than achieving GWAMM.

My whole argument is build on a simple premise. You will need a certain number of GW1 rewards to receive a bonus in GW2.
The reason why I do not care about rare minis is because I think that the GW2 reward that will be awarded to players for having a certain number of minis - extremely rare ones will not be needed.
When it comes to titles - I imagine that the reward will be based on the GWAMM title track. Now if the GW2 reward is given for reaching Kind - then everything I said about too much grind regarding the GW2 reward is false. There are 5 titles in the game that one can achieve by playing the game - so no grind is needed. Players would need to max out 5 titles and they would get the full reward in GW2.
If on the other hand the GW2 reward is given for God - that means that some heavy grinding is needed. Too much grind in my opinion.

Now this is only regarding GW2.
Then there is also the question about the quantity of grind in GW1. And for that, I'd just look at how I feel about God rather than Kind.
Too much grind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

It's funny you say that because PEOPLE ARE NOT PLAYING THE GAME, people are getting ran to the right and left and are using shitty gimmicks to cheat their way past stuff. Merely being logged in and paying for someone else to play your game isn't playing the game.

P.S. why does this faggot board replace normal English words with some go red engine bullshit?

See precious, that's the result of the game demanding things from players that can not be obtained by playing the game. GWAMM is currently too much grind to be achieved by playing the game.
And not only is that bad because it removes attainable goals from the players, it's also bad because it makes players resort to grind, and when you are grinding, you might as well use the most efficient way of grinding.

Tastyy · Nov 13, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Ok, I'm an elitist? The only UWSC I've done is Chamber, and I've done that a few time, but it is extremely boring. I only do FoWSC, which isn't really a complete speed clear, as it uses a main balanced group.

There is no incentive to UW, because the rewards are shitty for the time it takes to do a balanced clear.

I'm probably (I am) going to get flamed for this. Join a huge guild that actually does activities. KISS and NiTe are 2 examples. I'm sure you can find a group of willing people in the huge ass alliance.

Sorry to say this, but the days of PUGing the UW are long gone.

You may find UWSC boring, but I don't.

As you said, PUGing in UW is a very bad idea. No wonder people use SF, mmm?

F Al T H · Nov 13, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Maxing those 30 titles will likely give some vanity reward in the next game. Which is exactly the same thing as owning a Zhed, only it will be more common and therefore worth less than Zhed is. If anything, owning a Zhed mini matters more than achieving GWAMM.

Thats asuming that having a Zhed will unlock anything at all....

Imo I believe they wont give rewards on the types of minipets you acquire it would be far too unfair considering that there is only arround 50 of the most rarest pets in the game. The MORE likely reward you will recieve is for having say 20 minipets or a full momument stand to display will unlock the same reward as having every single minipet in the game.

Until Anet actually officially tells us exactly what is going to be rewarded for the achievements we make there's no point in delving into the matter and guessing that someone who has dedicated a extremely rare pet will get anything better than the average joe who puts just enough to fill the momument stand.

Will that said, I would only assume that they wont reward the person who has EVERYTHING in the hall of momuments over the average God Walking.

As for my thoughts regarding SF, I do not agree that people are having to use their sins to get into groups for UW, My reasoning behind this is because of what happened with Ursan, People were discriminating against anyone who was under Rank 8 Norn, it's exactly the same situation now only you have to be a SIN which is much harder than thought considering you can't just clear an area for a few SIN Points lol. however, I couldn't really care less I've got my momument for UW and FOW I personally have always felt that UW has always been a farming ground, I DO THINK that URSAN WAS FAR MORE FUN though :P nothing beats running about like headless chickens spamming 123 FTW.

killerbot3009 · Nov 13, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

wow, i started a major rage thread here lol

nice to read peoples oppinion on the matter, turns out leaving the skelies in UW has made it more fun xD

qvtkc · Nov 13, 2009, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Sorry precious.

I don't have your god damn ring!

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

See precious, there is no limited supply when it comes to GWAMM.
Contrary to a rare item, where the supply is limited, you can get GWAMM if you are dedicated. You can only get a rare mini if you are dedicated AND someone is offering it.
The only way to make Zhed's attainable to more people is by increasing their numbers. Otherwise, they will ALWAYS be near impossible to get.

Good point, they should increase the numbers. Though your argument is flawed since it only holds water on one side. Any fool that inputs enough time can get GWAMM, but how about actual high prestige titles, such as Legendary Hero (HA R15)? There is no limited supply of that either (apart from the total amount of people playing PvP, maybe). And guess what? Most people won't get R15, they don't go for R15, it's a thing far far away that only actually good* and dedicated players get.

* Yes, I know that there are people who scoff at HA. You know very well what I mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The point is rather that it keeps players interested in a dead game. Free advertising for their next product.

That advertising isn't needed, anyone knows that. It does however prevent people from jumping ship to a newer, competing MMO (say maybe Aion or EVE Online or something not yet released), which could lure them away from GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

See precious, SF is best at what it does.
But it does not do everything.
Wouldn't you rather clear an area with 8 SF assassins each invincible, yet dealing sub-par damage, or would you rather run guys whose damage output surpasses the SF guy but that comes at the expense of not having invincibility?
SF just means that if you are looking for a tank, you will take SF.
The same way you won't take a dervish if you will be looking for a healer.
You'll grab a monk.

Tank? If SF was limited to tanking, it would fall in the same cathegory as Dolyak Signet and it would not be a problem. But it's not limited to that.
If you want to clear an elite area in record time, SF.
If you want to solo a mission by running to the end and beating one guy, SF.
If you want to solo a dungeon by running to the end and beating one guy, SF.
If you want to pay someone to play your game for you, SF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The chance of failure influences the efficiency of a road taken.
In farming, where SF is used, you want to minimize the risk of failure. Because bigger risk means the chance of less rewards. And that is not compatible with farming.

Thank you for pointing this out. One balance metric is the risk/reward balance. Clearly, with SF, the risk is not only smaller than with basically any other build, the reward over time is also greater since it's so fast. It's obvious that SF is unbalanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Oh precious, you crack me up!
Acting as if you didn't know that we were talking about minis!
Classic qvtkc!
CLASSIC!

I have a feeling the enjoyment is mostly mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My whole argument is build on a simple premise. You will need a certain number of GW1 rewards to receive a bonus in GW2.
The reason why I do not care about rare minis is because I think that the GW2 reward that will be awarded to players for having a certain number of minis - extremely rare ones will not be needed.
When it comes to titles - I imagine that the reward will be based on the GWAMM title track. Now if the GW2 reward is given for reaching Kind - then everything I said about too much grind regarding the GW2 reward is false. There are 5 titles in the game that one can achieve by playing the game - so no grind is needed. Players would need to max out 5 titles and they would get the full reward in GW2.
If on the other hand the GW2 reward is given for God - that means that some heavy grinding is needed. Too much grind in my opinion.

Now this is only regarding GW2.
Then there is also the question about the quantity of grind in GW1. And for that, I'd just look at how I feel about God rather than Kind.
Too much grind.

Um. Ok. So you don't really care about GW1 apart from milking it for whatever shiny thing you can get in GW2 but with as little effort as possible?
Why do you want to ruin for the people who actually do like the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

See precious, that's the result of the game demanding things from players that can not be obtained by playing the game. GWAMM is currently too much grind to be achieved by playing the game.
And not only is that bad because it removes attainable goals from the players, it's also bad because it makes players resort to grind, and when you are grinding, you might as well use the most efficient way of grinding.

But the game doesn't demand that you reach GWAMM any more than it demands that you reach Legendary Hero or get a Zhed minipet. On the other hand, skills like SF making GWAMM generally available makes it feel like achieveing it is demanded (it's the simple concept of apparent social baseline; "everyone else is doing it", even when most don't).

qvtkc · Nov 13, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by F Al T H

Thats asuming that having a Zhed will unlock anything at all....

Ok, to clarify: What I meant was that the current benefit of having a Zhed minipet beats the future benefit of achieving GWAMM, even when you don't account for the fact that said future benefit is unknown in quality as well as quantity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F Al T H

Until Anet actually officially tells us exactly what is going to be rewarded for the achievements we make there's no point in delving into the matter and guessing that someone who has dedicated a extremely rare pet will get anything better than the average joe who puts just enough to fill the momument stand.

Will that said, I would only assume that they wont reward the person who has EVERYTHING in the hall of momuments over the average God Walking.

Well sorry Faith; it was Upier who brought it up with his unusually retarded argument about that SF should not be nerfed for the sake of the rewards in GW2.

GWAMM will probably not be average in any way whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F Al T H

I DO THINK that URSAN WAS FAR MORE FUN though :P nothing beats running about like headless chickens spamming 123 FTW.

Ursan Blessing was hilarious to play, however it was devastating for the game, devaluing some content so much that it will never recuperate.

Tastyy · Nov 14, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

O

Well sorry Faith; it was Upier who brought it up with his unusually retarded argument

Shouldn't sink down to insults.

Quote:

Ursan Blessing was hilarious to play[/URL], however it was devastating for the game, devaluing some content so much that it will never recuperate.

Yes, it was terrible, the economy dropped, everyone had fun, it was fun to see where you could ursan. Truly devastating to the game.

Buster · Nov 14, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

At this stage of the game does it really matter if Arenanet nerfs shadow form or not ? GW2 is on the way and the majority will be moving there. I say let people have their farming fun.

Tastyy · Nov 14, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

At this stage of the game does it really matter if Arenanet nerfs shadow form or not ? GW2 is on the way and the majority will be moving there. I say let people have their farming fun.

It'll be out in a year and some months. That's not "on the way".